Conversations with a Wiccan
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Monday, 22 June 09 - 02:22 PM (GMT) By Issai Ginro in nUTcASes |
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The following is a series of actual conversations that I have had with a Wiccan and his wife, word for word and over the course of the past year or two. They run a shop that sells things that lighten and brighten a home such as various types of candles, incense, etc etc. which I used to buy from them. I say ‘used to’ for reasons that will become apparent as you read on. Some of the statements might surprise you, but then again they might not, depending upon your knowledge of certain subjects.
I was choosing some incense:
They: “I don’t understand it, my bonsai trees have died.”
I: “Where did you keep them?”
They: “I kept them outside, but it was a nice sheltered area away from the sun and in the shade, so they should have been alright.”
I: “Were they indoor or outdoor bonsai?”
They: “I don’t know.”
I: “You really ought to check, as you are not supposed to plant indoor bonsai outside. If you do then they will die as they need careful nurturing, and that’s why they are called ‘Indoor bonsai’.”
They: “Oh. Well I’ll buy some more then and see how they do.”
They: “What’s the difference between re-incarnation and resurrection then?”
I: “Well basically, with reincarnation it is believed that when someone dies, their spirit leaves the body which then decays and is no more, and then finds a new body to inhabit with pretty much no memory of the previous life. With resurrection the person’s body dies, and then the same body comes back to life again with the same spirit inside it. It re-animates.”
They: “So it’s the same thing then!”
I: “No it isn’t the same thing. They’re both very different.”
They: “Oh no they’re not! They’re both the same thing!”
I: “No they...yes, I guess you must be right” Having gone down this road before with them I wasn’t in the mood for an argument.
I visited the shop and was browsing the jewellery;
They: “I don’t understand it. My bonsai trees have died again.”
I: “What did you do to them this time, and were they indoor or outdoor bonsai?”
They: “They were definitely indoor bonsai as I couldn’t find any outdoor ones. But I planted them outside in a nice sheltered area where they weren’t exposed to the wind, rain and sun. So they should have been alright.”
I: “No, you shouldn’t plant indoor bonsai outside. I told you that before. It doesn’t matter how sheltered the area was. They need to be kept indoors and looked after.”
They: “Yes, but I brought them inside when it was cold so they should have been alright.”
I: “No, it doesn’t matter what you think the weather is like, it matters to the trees and they should be kept indoors unless they are outdoor bonsai.”
They: “Oh. Well I’ll buy some more then.”
On an occasion when I was perusing the shelves choosing some candles;
They: “I can’t believe you are a Christian” (The latter spat out with particular venom). “You should be a Pagan just like your ancestors were.”
I: “OK, I guess on that basis then I should also believe that the Earth is flat and that the sun revolves around the Earth with all the planets revolving in perfect circles, because my ancestors might have believed that as well.”
They: “Your ancestors were all forced to become Christians at the point of a sword! It’s a proven fact!”
I: “I think you’ll find that is incorrect. For example, have you ever read Bede’s History of the English Church and People? Have you read the Anglo-Saxon Chronicles? Have you never heard of the story of the Sparrow in the Hall, where the Anglo-Saxons held a meeting to decide, on a show of hands and voluntarily, whether to reject their old beliefs and embrace the new one or not? Have you not heard of the High Priest to Woden who, fed-up with Paganism, destroyed his own high altar to Woden and became baptised as a Christian? There are many other recorded events of that nature. Have you not heard of St Alcuin of York, an Anglo-Saxon that was chief advisor to the Emperor Charlemagne? Charlemagne wanted to forcibly convert people in Europe to Christianity, and it was Alcuin who made sure that such a thing never happened?”
They: “I bet you’re going to deny that your ancestors were Pagans before becoming Christians now too.”
I: “Of course not. What on earth do you think they were before becoming Christians?”
They: “I find it strangely coincidental that Jesus, Buddha, and Mohammed all lived at the same time.”
I: “Ummm...I think you’ll find that they didn’t.”
They: “Oh yes they did! I know! I’ve done my research!”
I: “Then perhaps you’d better check again. Buddha lived in the 5th – 6th century B.C., Jesus in the 1st Century A.D., and Mohammed in the 7th century A.D.”
They: “Oh no they didn’t!”
I: “Yes, they did, and shouting at me isn’t going to change that.”
They: “I don’t seem to be able to get my bonsai trees to grow. How come mine die and yours don’t?”
I: “Have yours died again? And did you put them outside again despite the fact you were told not to?”
They: “Yes but the weather was really nice so they should have been alright.”
As this had happened recently I figured that he might just be able to salvage them, as they might not have died completely, and explained to him what he might be able to do in order to help them start growing. A week or two later I checked in on them to see if they had taken my advice.
They: “Oh yes, we brought them indoors and did everything you said. They’ve started growing again.”
I: “OK, but this time keep them indoors and don’t be tempted to plant them outside again.”
They: “Constantine rewrote the Gospels, it’s a proven fact!”
I: “Where do you get all this crap? Have you been reading ‘The Da Vinci Code’ or something?”
They: “No, and I don’t know what the Da Vinci Code even is. It’s a proven fact that Constantine re-wrote all the gospels.”
I: “Well everything you’ve just said is straight out of Dan Brown’s ‘The Da Vinci Code’ so that’s why I assumed you’d read it. Constantine didn’t re-write the Gospels and that is actually very easily demonstrable. The New Testament can be almost entirely recomposed simply from quotations alone, and many of those quotations pre-date Constantine showing that what we have now is what the Church had before Constantine was even born.”
They: “Those are lies! They aren’t true! Chinese whispers!”
I: “Pardon? Chinese whispers?”
They: “Yes, Chinese whispers. As the message gets passed around it changes so the Bible today doesn’t say what it originally said and the original ones were destroyed!”
I: “If it doesn’t say what it originally said then how do you know it has been changed, if what you claim is true? According to your own argument there would be no original documents on which to base your argument on. It’s self-defeating, your argument cancels itself out.”
They: *silence*
I: “I don’t think you understand the concept of ‘Chinese whispers’. That only applies to verbally transmitted information as it is impossible to verify the original message with the people who passed the message on being dead. It doesn’t apply to documentary material as it is very easy to verify the accuracy, or otherwise, of anything written down by simply comparing it with that which was originally written and with other copies made by different people at different times and places.”
They: “You’re wrong! Chinese whispers only applies to documents! You’re wrong! I’m a Wiccan and what we believe has been faithfully passed down by word of mouth for thousands of years and it’s never been changed at all!”
I: “Now that is what Chinese whispers applies to, verbally transmitted material. I don’t think you fully understand this as I said before.”
They: “Oh yes I do and you’re the one who is wrong! Christianity is responsible for more evil in the world than anything else at all! Everyone used to be peaceful nature loving Pagans living in peace and harmony worshipping the Goddess with everyone else until Christianity (the word again virtually spat out) came along and ruined everything!”
I was becoming tired of the unprovoked denigration of what I said so, rather than have yet another argument, I walked away.
Most people would have given up at this point and never gone back, but I’m a glutton for punishment and prefer to give people a second, third, or even a fourth chance. Maybe, just maybe, this time I will be left in peace and not be shouted at simply because I didn’t believe what they believed. Besides, apart from their shop the only other one nearest to me that sells the things I want is miles away.
I was explaining about Lord of the Rings and the reasoning behind Tolkien’s writing it, that the English didn’t have many legends about their own folk so he wanted to create one for them...
They: “Oh yes the English did have legends. There was King Arthur.”
I: “No, King Arthur, if he existed, wasn’t English.”
They: “Oh yes he was! He was English, and the story of King Arthur is a proven fact!”
I: “No, if he existed at all he would have most likely been Romano-British rather than anything else.”
They: “Well Queen Boadicea was English.”
I: “I’m sorry but you’re wrong there too. Boadicea wasn’t English. She was what you would call Celtic.”
They: “You’re wrong. She was English. She lived in England!”
I: “England didn’t even exist as a country back then. She was not English. Would you please accept this?”
They: “I don’t understand this. My bonsai trees have all died, and even following your instructions from last time they’re still dead.
I: “What did you do to them this time?”
They: “Well it was really nice weather so I planted them outside again. But it was really sheltered and protected!”
I: “I don’t believe you! When are you going to listen? How many people have to tell you not to plant indoor bonsai outside before you listen to them? How many have you killed so far?”
They: “Well I want outdoor bonsai instead, but they’re too expensive.”
They: “You’re actually a Buddhist really aren’t you?”
I: “No. I like Zen, but I’m not a Buddhist.”
They: “Zen Buddhist then.”
I: “No, not Zen Buddhist either. Just Zen,”
They: “It’s all the same thing!”
I: “No it isn’t.”
They: “Oh yes it is!”
I: “No it...oh forget it.”
On a discussion about a Channel 4 programme which depicted the events of 1066 and the three battles fought between the English and the Vikings, and the English and the Normans. On referring to the depiction in the programme of the rape and slaughter of the English inhabitants of a village by the Normans (referred to in the Doomsday Book), they had tried to convince me that it had actually been the English raping and slaughtering a Celtic village instead. They hadn’t listened to the dialogue in the programme at all and had simply jumped to conclusions: people being raped and killed and their village burned, in their minds, instead translated as poor harmless Celts being slaughtered by the English. Go figure. Then I tried to explain a bit about the earliest inhabitants of the British Isles, referring to the Bronze Age and the Mesolithic era.
They: “The Anglo-Saxons were not the first inhabitants of Britain. The first people here were the Ancient Britons!”
I: “I didn’t say the Saxons were the first ones here, I was referring to their cousins such as the Picts that were also Germanic.”
They: “Aha see? You said Saxons this time! And you said German! The first people here were the Ancient Britons! I know! I’ve read Bernard Cornwell!” (i.e. the novelist)
I: I didn’t say German, I said Germanic, which is a type not a nationality. All the Scandinavians peoples are Germanic.”
They: “Oh no they’re not, and Germanic means German!!! It’s the same thing!!!”
I: “Good grief. And I think I can count myself a little more well-read than Bernard Cornwell, as you are more than aware of.”
It was from this point that of the two, his wife refused to talk to me ever again. I should have seen the trouble headed my way.
They: “You Christians stole all our festivals and our symbols! Look! You’re even wearing an Ankh which is a pagan symbol!”
I: “Firstly, in what way is somebody ‘stealing’ festivals and symbols that belonged to them anyway? For example, if I choose to celebrate my birthday differently to the way I have previously celebrated it, whose business is that? It’s my birthday and I can do what I want with it. Secondly, today the Ankh is a symbol of the Coptic Church and has been for a very long time. The Copts are the direct descendants of the Ancient Egyptians who designed the Ankh. It belongs to them, and they chose to re-use it to be one of the Churches symbols. In what way were they stealing what was theirs in the first place?”
They: “You Christians have always persecuted us Pagans!”
I: “I guess you have forgotten about Nero then.”
They: “Who was he?”
I: “The Roman emperor that used to use Christians as human torches to light up his garden parties at night.”
They: “Well... at least he wasn’t English!”
And he walked away signalling that was the end of the matter as far as he was concerned.
They: “It isn’t fair. How come you never have any problems with your bonsai trees and yet mine always die.”
I: “Eh?”
They: “You’re actually a witch at heart really, you just don’t realise it yet.”
I: “OK. So a while ago you were telling me I’m a Buddhist, and now you’re telling me I’m a witch but just haven’t realised it yet. I think I’ll pass on any further comment to that if you don’t mind.”
The next time I was in their shop they offered me a coffee, which I happily accepted. The first sip and the coffee tasted a little strange, but having had the flu the week before I put it down to my sense of taste being screwed up. I heard them whispering in the back room, then they came to the door and looked at me as I drank the coffee. Then they went back to whispering in the back room. Then they both came out of the back room, casting what can only be described as furtive glances in my direction. By this time I wasn’t sure whether it was the coffee, or me. But something didn’t taste right. Then the husband of the two told me not to forget the coffee, so I took another sip of it. By this stage I now knew it was the coffee as the taste had got stronger. Whatever was in the coffee was heavier than the water and it had sunk to the lower half of the mug. Again the furtive glances from the other two. I decided to leave the shop as I felt uncomfortable in there, and they seemed relieved to see me go. No mention of the coffee again from them, despite the fact I had left half of it in the mug.
I went off to do some shopping, and then to the bus stop. At that point I started retching. By the time I got home, I walked in the door and was violently sick. That's when I realised what the horrible taste in the coffee had been. They had put bleach in my coffee, and I was quite ill for the next two days. ‘Do no harm’? Don’t make me laugh.
Those who wish to examine Wiccan claims in the cold light of reality might wish to access this information, just as a starter:
Websites:
1. ‘Wicca for the rest of us’ – Catherine Noble M.A.
2. ‘When is a Celt not a Celt’
3. ‘Why Wicca Sucks’ or ‘Why Wicca Sucks 2’
4. ‘The Rights to the word Witch’
5. ‘Recent Developments in the Study of the Great European Witch Hunt’ by Jenny Gibbons M.A.
6. ‘What Makes a Fluff bunny?’
Amongst the many books on the subject, one that comes up and might be worth a read, particularly the second half of the book:
‘The Triumph of the Moon’ by Ronald Hutton
With regards the above book, a little quote as a taster:
“From the late 1980s onwards academics in Britain and America have confronted claims of ritual abuse and sacrifice of children by networks of Satanists, and after careful investigation have concluded that there is no evidence that such networks exist, nor that such rites have taken place. Modern witches who may be grateful for this work cannot then expect scholars to suspend the same absolute demand for evidence when evaluating their own claims to the antiquity of their traditions.” (Page 288)
However, it appears that this is precisely what many Wiccans do expect historians to do, believe it or not.
佚斎
銀狼
Latest Entry
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Saturday, 20 June 09 - 11:50 AM (GMT) By Issai Ginro in Announcements |
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Just to let anyone that might still occasionally peruse these pages, I will be writing a new post probably on Monday.
At the moment I have very limited access to the Internet and this is proving to be intensely frustrating, as many sites are inaccessible to me, including all Blogger/Blogspot sites.
Ah well *sigh* lol.
佚斎 銀狼Crime
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Tuesday, 31 March 09 - 02:21 PM (GMT) By Issai Ginro in Ratiocination |
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A load of Eastern European migrants have just settled in our area.
Within weeks of their arrival a large number of people including me had to report attempted break-ins to their houses, in an area that hasn't seen any crime before in the several years I have lived here.
Coincidence or something else?
Crime follows them around like a bad stench.
佚斎 銀狼Ginro is giving up.......
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Friday, 27 March 09 - 03:38 PM (GMT) By Angelic Weeyin in Announcements |
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Blogging.
Now I hope all you followers of Ginro's Blog will tell him otherwise not to give it up. I know I don't want him to. I love his writing and think he is funny but also serious when the occasion arises.
ps I think he is jealous of Tuna!!! 
The Birks of Aberfeldy
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Monday, 23 March 09 - 09:44 AM (GMT) By Angelic Weeyin in nUTcASes |
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Sitting on Rabbie Burn's knee whilst he composes The Birks O Aberfeldy
Must have been gey damp to have sat here to compose a poem
Part of the Birks of Aberfeldy
Tuna Adventures cont'd
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Sunday, 22 March 09 - 03:35 PM (GMT) By Angelic Weeyin in nUTcASes |
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Fife Coastal Path Inverkeithing - North Queensferry
It was a lovely day weather wise, though just a wee bit windy. The views were spectacular as always over to Edinburgh and looking at the two bridges. Unfortunately I wasn't keeping that well but I did get a few photographs of Tuna and some of the sights.
佚斎 銀狼
T.V.
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Monday, 16 March 09 - 02:08 PM (GMT) By Issai Ginro in Ratiocination |
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I’ve been watching too much TV.
Is it my imagination or does Sky News seem to devote an obscene amount of time to sports news in the morning? Can’t stand football. If I wanted to watch paint dry I’d go to B and Q.
Believe it or not, for a long time I thought the words to the CSI theme were "Ooooh ahhh ooooh, boo boo, boop be boo boo!"
BT in their latest advert claims that there is nothing more frustrating than losing your Internet connection. I beg to differ...
The latest Tesco advert states that Tescos has plenty of baskets. If I worked there I'd take great offence at being referred to by my employers as useless head cases. But then according to BT there is nothing more frustrating than losing your Internet connection, so perhaps Tesco employees should just take it on the chin and then do all their shopping at Asda.
I ate my evening meal whilst watching Numbers, for a change. Surely nothing would happen on Numbers to make my appetite disappear. Half an hour later I nearly threw up. A lot of high quality programmes coming out of American TV these days, but do they all have to be so graphic and yukky? Quite funny though how they manage to turn even the most mundane actions into something seemingly exciting. Lab work is so boring, repetitive, and long-winded. I can’t stand it. But add a bit of flashy music, cut to shots panning in and out round and about and suddenly it looks like the most exciting thing ever. I keep wondering how we could make a film of someone writing his blog, and adding the same touch of dash and verve make it look like something really exciting going on. Zooming in on the keyboard, cutaway to the internal workings of the keyboard but leaving out all the real-life shots of biscuit crumbs, cigarette ash, spilt coffee, grains of sugar, and dust balls. Get the PR guys to work and I guess even cleaning the bathroom would suddenly appear fascinating.
At long last The Mentalist is going to appear on UK TV. I have already seen the first series, as I like to watch my favourite shows online (when I have a connection that is, lol) and saw it several months ago. Superb series and I thoroughly recommend it.
But what is it with ending words with 'ist' all the time now, to try and make it sound more 'scientific' and somehow professional? Mentalist, criminalist, speechwriterist... At the moment I am a bloggalist. Later I will play the part of a walkist...or walkalist. It's a facticity that people seem to be inventing new words. What’s wrong with the old ones? I thought only psychologists needed to do that, what with their Ladybird books on science and all.
Perhaps I should write my own stuff...
“One of the passengers has collapsed! Is there a doctor here?”
“Yes! I’m a doctor! Get me a three-inch trowel and a plumb line, stat! Additionally I want the GPR team notified and they are to take readings of the patients legs, the rest of us will cut an exploratory trench across the patients chest area.”
“Eh? No. We meant a medical doctor.”
“Oh. OK.” He switched off the Time Team theme he’d begun playing on his MP3 player, “Guess I’ll get back to my crate of beer then.”
Dr Thingy the cardiac specialist carefully examined the patient. After the Code Sunset Burgundy (the hospital manageress had a degree in art and design) he wasn’t going to take any more chances. “Quick! Get some stuff to inject in him and make things work properly! Meanwhile I’ll try and get his heart started again!” So saying he turned to the CD player and switched it on, and love songs by Barry White started to waft through the air.
At some stage I might do an expose of Wicca. Meantime, for today’s homework I want you all to research the expression ‘Fluffy Bunny Wiccan’ and present a sentence about it.
Here here
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Friday, 13 March 09 - 02:14 PM (GMT) By Issai Ginro in Ratiocination |
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The Dumpery
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Thursday, 12 March 09 - 11:31 AM (GMT) By Issai Ginro in nUTcASes |
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Why oh why do I never learn? I like watching C.S.I., particularly C.S.I. New York, and what do I nearly always do? Sit down to watch it whilst eating my evening meal. Within ten minutes I’ll have suddenly lost my appetite.
This however got me thinking. We’ve all been to eateries yes? Restaurants. We sit there drinking and shovelling food down our throats to be digested, all the time knowing what the next processes are going to be. It’ll all end up in the sewer. So we happily fill ourselves with food in front of everyone, but suddenly coyly disappear to a private room to...well, you know, lol.
Perhaps someone should open up a Dumpery, the next fashion craze, the place to be seen sat in. Everyone sits around on a public lav ‘a la Roman style’, dumping away whilst drinking and chatting, maybe even comparing ‘deposits’. “Oooh look, there’s that spaghetti bolognaise I had yesterday.” I guess it would need to have powerful industrial fans fitted overhead though.
Let’s not forget even all these famous models, actresses and actors etc. spend part of the day sat on a bowl grunting and straining, faces reddening from the effort, “Gnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn... O.M.G. it feels like I’m giving birth to a cannonball!” Beads of perspiration on their foreheads, foetid air, gas masks, paint melting off the walls, blocked pipes, flinging it out the windows in an attempt to hide the embarrassing blockage where it lands on the heads of unsuspecting pedestrians who gaze up at the sky with puzzled looks on their faces...
No need for any more of that now as they can leave all the problems and ‘issues’ to the management of ‘The Dumpery’.
That reminds me of the time, slightly off-topic, I was sat in a cafe with a few friends, and couldn't get that little tub of milk to open so I could pour it in my coffee. Suddenly my thumb went through the foil top but with such force the milk squirted up about four or five feet in the air. It seemed to all happen in slow motion. It curved over my left shoulder and landed on top of the head of the guy sat behind with his back to me. "Oh crap" I thought. But all he did was sit there, look at his hands, then feel his head, then look up at the ceiling as if he thought that milk dropping out of the ceiling was a naturally occurring event. He never once looked round. I was crying with laughter.
Back to C.S.I. and programmes like that though. Aren’t they awfully rude on the mobile phones? Chatting to someone and then suddenly hanging up without a word more, not even a ‘thanks’, or ‘goodbye’, or ‘talk later’. I guess it cuts out all the extraneous stuff though:
Grissom: No, you go first
Detective: No, you go first
Grissom: No you
Detective: No, it’s your turn this time
Grissom: Well, ok on the count of three. 1. 2. 3....
Detective: *silence*
Grissom: Are you still there?
Detective: You said you’d hang up on three!
Grissom: Yes, but you were supposed to as well...
Detective: I was waiting to see if you would!
Grissom: I knew you wouldn’t do it.
Ad infinitum...
佚斎
銀狼
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